# Freshwater Aquariums > General Freshwater Topics > Tropical Chit Chat >  Fish Fights - GoldFish Vs Sucking Loach

## phillsb

Hi, Im looking for some advice/suggestions or any thing else that may help.

I have a small selection of fish, Goldfish (Large) , Angel Fish, Clown Loach and 2 pleco's, all seem to get along fine, with the exception of 1 Sucking Loach which after 7 months has now gone back to the shop.

The Goldfish - (Jemmy)
Jemmy was won at a fair and was only 5cm and we thought he would only last 2-3 weeks, 2 years on he is now a 20cm in size and think he may be starting to outgrow our tank.

The Sucking Loach - (Edward)
Edward has been attacking the Jemmy for a about 9 weeks now and seems to have up set Jemmy him :-). when the attack starts Jemmy really has now where to run (swim) to.

Our Goldfish has a large white tail of which is now showing a lot of red (Blood shot i assume), and also missing some scales. I assume this is where the loach was attacking.

I have heard that this is possibly due to the loach being territorial and or he is hungry and the scales off the fish are just what he wants. 

Any suggestions are more than welcome.

Thanks in advance

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## Ian

what size is the tank? would imagine if the tank is too small then there would be issues like fighting ect

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## phillsb

Im probably wrong but its about 19 Ltrs

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## Ian

well in that case yes its WAY to small!!!

WAY to small for any one of those fish never mind all of them!!

what are the dimentions? got any pics?

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## phillsb

Sorry i think i got the capacity wring. the size of the tank appx 45cmx60cmx35cm. Appx 19-20 Gallons

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## Gary R

Hi phillsb

And welcome to fish-keeping.com m8
Just having a read at this post of yours, its not the first time iv heard of this,
Sucking Loach when small and young will go round eating alge....but some when they do get older tend to get a bit aggressive to slow moving fish and will end up trying to eat the slime off there scales and sometimes will go for there eyes.
all i can say is get a bigger tank or move it all together and the last thing is to put more hidding places in there.

hope this helps and once again welcome to our forum 


Regards Gary

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## phillsb

Thanks Gary R.

I'm not able to upgrade the tank to anything larger yet but will keep that in mind.

Can you tell me how to identify sex on goldfish?

Also Jemmy is not looking too good at the mo and im not sure wether he is just having a rest and recuperating or if he is on his last legs (fins). His fins (Top, Bttom and side) continuasly seem to be down/flattened.

He has been sitting on the bottom the tank for the best part of the day and every now and then he makes a mad dash around the tank banging his head on the side. Is this normal for a fish in his condition?

apart from stress coat and stress zyme should i be looking to add anything else to assist?

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## Ian

btw are they common plecs?

sorry i know you have another problem at the moment but if they are your tank is amazingly over stocked!

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## Gary R

> Can you tell me how to identify sex on goldfish?
> 
> Also Jemmy is not looking too good at the mo and im not sure wether he is just having a rest and recuperating or if he is on his last legs (fins). His fins (Top, Bttom and side) continuasly seem to be down/flattened.
> 
> He has been sitting on the bottom the tank for the best part of the day and every now and then he makes a mad dash around the tank banging his head on the side. Is this normal for a fish in his condition?
> 
> apart from stress coat and stress zyme should i be looking to add anything else to assist?


Iam not 100% when it comes to sexing goldfish, i think one is to look for salt type spots on the opercular region and on the first ray of the pectoral fins as an indication of a male. another method is to determine the sex by the shape and appearance of the anal opening, but like i say iam not 100%

as with your jemmy, if you can move him out of the tank into somethink on is own, i would do it now if you can, as you dont know if it as got any disease's with whats gone on, then treat it on its own, if its got to the point of no return i would put it out of its misery phill.

and if your tank is around 19-20 Gallons you should be ok with the fish you have.

Regards Gary

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## Ian

> and if your tank is around 19-20 Gallons you should be ok with the fish you have.
> 
> Regards Gary


Sorry but that is the wrong advise!!

lets say they are common plecs, they grow HUGE i mean easily 18inch's, clown loach's grow to around 12 inches and should be kept in groups of about 4 or 5. Angel fish should be in pairs and also grow to be big.

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## Gary R

> Sorry but that is the wrong advise!!
> 
> lets say they are common plecs, they grow HUGE i mean easily 18inch's, clown loach's grow to around 12 inches and should be kept in groups of about 4 or 5. Angel fish should be in pairs and also grow to be big.


i would say in a 20 gallon tank ian the clown Loach would be no bigger than 2 to 3inch in size and the angel fish would be around the same size and the 2 pleco's would be around 3 to 4inch in size (and like i said i would move the goldfish out of there) so i would say that the other 4 would be ok .....in a tank that size i cant see any of the fish groving that much in there as its not that big, unless there were big in the first place....you are looking at one inch of fish per gallon of water, and three inch per gallon for goldfish,  so only phill knows how big they are.

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## phillsb

Thanks Guys,

Unfortunately we have lost one of the plecos (Joe) this evening and the clown loach isnt looking too well.

I think Jemmy has septicemia - i can't take him out as i dont have anything else big enough to put him in and not sure he would survive the transfer.

Cupid (Clown Loach) he is 2 yrs old and has not grown any bigger than 2 Inches. He has now darkened in colour and is resting on the bottom with the odd burst of finning to keep up right (this looks like hard work for him). 

Robbie (Angel Fish) he is 1 yr old and is slow in growth & about 2.5 Inch in size. He seems to be ok.

Dom (Small gold fish) He is 2 yrs old and 2 Inch in size and not showing any further increase in size. He has been moved into a seperate container with a small air pump. He will be here for the next week.
Dom was moved earlier today as he was attacking Jemmy just like the Edward (Sucking Loach) use to do.

Wayne (Pleco) He is currently small in size and will not grow to anything mor than 4 Inch in apprx 18 months he seems to be ok.


Treatment.
I have cleaned the tank with about 50% water change, added stress zyme and stress coat. I also put No 8 treatment for fin rot. The notes mentioned  the red streaks (Just like Jemmy has got) and also said it is good for those that have darkened (Cupid).


Once again thanks for your help guys and appologies for sharing the names of the fish with you.

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## Gary R

ok so if your fish have septicemia that will be down to poor water.....if i was you i would do a ammonia test as this disease is often due to high ammonia levels, goldfish produce a lot of waste and in turn water is more susceptible to high ammonia.

to be honest i dont think there is any chance of this fish getting over it as this disease attacks the fish's blood vessels and causing hemorrhaging along the way.

Regards Gary

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## Ian

Fair enough the fish will only grow to the size they can in a tank. BUT their internal organs will continue to grow and the normal rate meaning the inside is going to get bigger than the outside! very painful i would imagine!!

and phill you know the clownloach is a meat eater right?

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## phillsb

Evening Guys,

Last night after the 50% water change i added the Anti Fungus & Fin Rot (Anti F & F R) treatment along with Stress Coat & Zyme. This seemed to help get them through the night.

Today I checked the chemical balance in the tank for GH KH PH No-2 & No-3 and found that they were quite high. 

It has been suggested that i perform another water change of 20% to help filter out the Anti F & FR to replace it with the Anti Slime & Velvet treatment in the morning. This has been completed and added a sachet of proper PH, Filter Aid and a touch more Stress Coat & Zyme. by doing this it has helped with the Chemical balance already. 


    Is this the right thing to do in the morning in such a short period of time from adding the Anti Fungus & Fin Rot treatment?

The water change was completed about 20:30 tonight and its now 21:50 and the water is looking extremly cloudy more so than when its was first done. Is this something to be concerened about or is it just the treatments working?

Ian, No i did not know Clown Loach are meat eaters. Well when he has fully recoverd i shall treat him to a few snails. He has had a Daphneia in the past along with blood worm and it did look like he was enjoying it too, just thought he was hungry :-)

The Clown loach started swimming around this evening rather than just lying on his side so that.



Again, Thanks for your help

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## Timo

The water changes should be ok but make sure the new water going in is well aerated. Expose it to as much oxygen as you can eg large air stone and pump or better still a fast powerhead moving it around.

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## phillsb

Hi Timo, Yes there is lots of bubbles entering via 2 medium airstones and the filter/pump is on max giving a good circulation.

when you say powerhead do you mean water pump?

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## phillsb

Hi Just like to thank you all for the advise you gave me over the past weeks, but unfortunatley we lost all our fish.
Jemmy (Goldfish),Robbie (Angel Fish), Cupid (Clown Loach), Dom (Platy-Swordtail), Wayne & Joe (Pleco).

My son was upset and the only way we could give Jemmy a good send off was to take him to the canal as he was too big (25cm) for the usual method.

Ok The tank has now been cleaned out all new filter pads internal filter and have also inherited an external Ehiem filter. Were off to get some more fish at the weekend, not sure what to get, something along the lines of tetras and danios to start with. I would welcome any suggestions.

Tank size is approx 24"x14"x18" 15Gl.

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